The ideal time for the black argyll

[Jock Scot]

Nathan has hit on something that's very important: it's necessary to not only be correct, but to be seen to be correct through the eyes and customs about us less we give a less than stellar impression of kiltwearing. Sometimes that means conforming to the norms about us, much as in Scotland one must conform to the norms about.

Actually Bill I do have problems about making concessions with traditional kilt attire to please those that are ignorant about kilt attire. Do others with attachments to other ethnic groups make such arrangements? I certainly know of some that make no concessions for anyone. I have no wish to start a war here, but the way for people who know nothing about an ethenic group and their attire is to do it properly so that those who are ignorant of such things are wiser at the end of the event than when they started. To fail to do so just raises the inevitable thoughts that some Scots already have and those thoughts, as we know, irritate some non Scots more than somewhat. Just saying.

[Father Bill]

Jock, I never worry about what people say to me - I can explain it to them and teach them. It's when they go home with their snoots out of joint without saying a word and think that we're boorish... then we've lost a point and with it, an opportunity.

[Jock Scot]

Personally Bill I would much prefer people to go home with the true facts and impressions, even if they end up not liking it. To do otherwise is dishonest and makes a mockery of some one's national attire and it matters not which nation's attire we are talking about.

Sorry Bill, I have no wish to labour the point ,so perhaps its best for us to agree to disagree?

[Father Bill]

I think perhaps so. I'd rather be able to go about without offending those I am with than to please an online friend or two I've never met, so I adjust somewhere between.

I knew you wouldn't let my reply go by without a last word.

[Grizzly]

Nathan has hit on something that's very important: it's necessary to not only be correct, but to be seen to be correct through the eyes and customs about us less we give a less than stellar impression of kiltwearing. Sometimes that means conforming to the norms about us, much as in Scotland one must conform to the norms about.

Father, whilst I appreciate your sentiment, I have noticed that there is clear disparity between what is worn in Scotland and what others think that is worn or should be worn in Scotland. Whilst I have seen many examples of folk wearing THCD I have also seen many others wearing attire that would not even pass customs checkpoint. I say each to their own and the world is a greater place for it, but let us not forget that it is the likes of Jock, Phil, Neloon and kiltfitz plus other Scots who set the bar if this is what we aspire too, otherwise what we seek is a parody of what we think highland wear should be.

[Father Bill]

Aye indeed. The shades of difference must be slight at most, but some slight adjustment is not, in my mind, necessarily egregious.

[Grizzly]

Aye father it is fine line between costumery and THCD, whilst there are some who pass muster admirably, there are others that, shall we say have their own interpretation and it makes the world a more colourful place for it. Let's just not say that it is THCD, each to their own and each has its own place. That alone will ensure that the kilt will endure.

[Father Bill]

Aye, Grizz, and that's a line that must not be crossed!

[Nathan]

I agree completely that when a variation is made, it should be subtle. My charcoal worsted wool, herringbone suiting fabric argyll with black buttons is not one of your typical cookie cutter jackets. Although not as quintessential as tweed or as ubiquitous as a black barathea argyll with silver buttons, I don't think it's so far out of bounds as to be considered a costume or caricature of THCD. It's still an Argyll and there has to be some room for individual expression given that we aren't wearing uniforms here.

I could wear a check tweed to a funeral in an effort to educate the masses about national dress, but nobody would ask me about it and nobody would get an education. They'd just think I was dressed immodestly and trying to draw attention to myself.

On the other hand, would my charcoal Argyll raise any eyebrows for not being tweed at a funeral in the Highlands? I'd be surprised if the answer was yes.

I think of Lord Macdonald's bottle green barathea crail jacket with horn buttons that he wears with day wear or the many examples of atypical jackets and waistcoats worn by HRH the Duke of Rothsay. Perhaps a little different than the norm, but not so different as to cross the line into costume or to debase the national dress.

To be sure, as Father Bill ably pointed out, the subtle choices we make to cater to our audience or personal taste from time to time must be just that. Subtle.

[Phil]

An interesting thread and just from my experience I would class the Argyll as the equivalent of morning dress (you know - what the manager of a posh hotel might wear). Here in Scotland the church elders will wear it to communion if they aren't wearing a tweed jacket. I don't really recognise it as formal wear for evenings though and for a daytime wedding the tweed jacket is probably more appropriate.