Yet another "Clan Question"

[FreakPower70]

ok, so here goes. As a young man looking into my background I have become quite swept up with all this highland clan stuff and just a question which will need a little explaining before I get into it.

So having asked some relatives I have found that I have more Scottish background than I knew. Here is the thing my mothers maiden name is Nevins and they come directly from Scotland, my last name is Owens (so is my fathers obviously), which after a little research I have connected with the clan MacEwen, which I understand is a "broken" clan and have then connected it with clan MacLachlan. Now finally I get to the point. The thing is I know that my Owens name is welsh, at least as far back as I know it is welsh. So would it be in horribly bad form to consider joining Clan MacLachlan using my surname?

[Ayin McFye]

If this is something that you feel you have a connection to that you want to belong to then by all means I say go ahead and join. I personally am not a big fan of joining some clans out there. Just my own personal opinion though.

As for a kilt, I think some of the Welsh kilts out there are awesome looking and you should definitely represent them if you are interested.

Many clans are open to whomever, and others are exclusive. It all depends on each one. I'd get to know some of the members of that clan at a local highlands game if possible and see if it's something that truly does interest you. Ultimately my advice is to do as much research into any group you wish to join prior to doing so. You can be proud of your heritage without actually joining a clan. Just my two cents though.

Good luck and welcome to Xmarks!

[Phogfan86]

I learned that I may be affiliated with a boatload of clans and, after consideration, narrowed it down to two that, for various reasons, appealed to me. I e-mailed contacts from both clan societies with some cursory questions and got replies from both.

One reply treated me like I was four for not knowing the answers to my own questions and openly questioned whether or not I actually had any ties to that clan at all.

The other was very welcoming, cautioned me very nicely on the accuracy of not my own genealogical research but all research past the 18th century, and encouraged me to join. He also sent me a cell number and encouraged me to call anytime if I had more questions.

Guess who got my $30.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Speaking (well, actually writing) as a traditionalist, I would suggest you consider the Nevin connection as your strongest tie to the romance of the Scottish Highlands. Since the Nivens/Nevins are associated with the Cumins (Cumming or Comyn), the MacKintoshes, and the MacNaughtons it would seem to me that you are in the enviable position of being able to select that clan society which bests suits your needs and addresses your aspirations while at the same time paying homage to your Mother's heritage.

Since Owens really is a Welsh surname, if you wished to clearly establish your "Scottishness", there would be nothing to prevent you adding your Mother's last name to your own, and becoming Mr. Nevin-Owens. Perfectly legal, and again, a nice way for your Mother's name to be continued for future generations. My friend Dickie Macmillan-Fox (that's really his name) is a living example of this; the Macmillan part of the name came in with his great grandmother.

There will, undoubtedly be pedants (as opposed to traditionalists) who will tell you to find out which part of Scotland your Nevin ancestors hailed from, and then join the clan (Cumin, MacKintosh, MacNaughton) that is in that area. My advice would be not to worry about it-- in the 19th and 20th century the Scots moved all over the place and clan "loyalties" changed dramatically. Today clan membership is about celebrating Scottish culture, and you can do this as well as a MacNaughton as you can a Cumin or MacKintosh. What you want to do is join that clan society which seems to be the most active in your locale. Then you can take part in those activities, as well as merely attending the local highland games in a kilt or meeting up with fellow X-Markers for the odd kilt night.

[macwilkin]

Speaking (well, actually writing) as a traditionalist, I would suggest you consider the Nevin connection as your strongest tie to the romance of the Scottish Highlands. Since the Nivens/Nevins are associated with the Cumins (Cumming or Comyn), the MacKintoshes, and the MacNaughtons it would seem to me that you are in the enviable position of being able to select that clan society which bests suits your needs and addresses your aspirations while at the same time paying homage to your Mother's heritage.

Since Owens really is a Welsh surname, if you wished to clearly establish your "Scottishness", there would be nothing to prevent you adding your Mother's last name to your own, and becoming Mr. Nevin-Owens. Perfectly legal, and again, a nice way for your Mother's name to be continued for future generations. My friend Dickie Macmillan-Fox (that's really his name) is a living example of this; the Macmillan part of the name came in with his great grandmother.

There will, undoubtedly be pedants (as opposed to traditionalists) who will tell you to find out which part of Scotland your Nevin ancestors hailed from, and then join the clan (Cumin, MacKintosh, MacNaughton) that is in that area. My advice would be not to worry about it-- in the 19th and 20th century the Scots moved all over the place and clan "loyalties" changed dramatically. Today clan membership is about celebrating Scottish culture, and you can do this as well as a MacNaughton as you can a Cumin or MacKintosh. What you want to do is join that clan society which seems to be the most active in your locale. Then you can take part in those activities, as well as merely attending the local highland games in a kilt or meeting up with fellow X-Markers for the odd kilt night.

And btw, there is an officer of the Clan Cumming Society who is a member of this board -- I can't remember his name, though.

Yours aye,

Todd

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

And btw, there is an officer of the Clan Cumming Society who is a member of this board -- I can't remember his name, though.

Yours aye,

Todd

I must say that I feel it should be incumbent upon the aforesaid "Officer of Clan Cumming" to PM the originator of this thread and extend the manly hand of clanship.

[gilmore]

...There will, undoubtedly be pedants (as opposed to traditionalists) who will tell you to find out which part of Scotland your Nevin ancestors hailed from, and then join the clan (Cumin, MacKintosh, MacNaughton) that is in that area. My advice would be not to worry about it-- in the 19th and 20th century the Scots moved all over the place and clan "loyalties" changed dramatically. Today clan membership is about celebrating Scottish culture, and you can do this as well as a MacNaughton as you can a Cumin or MacKintosh. ....

To me which tartan to wear is more about which clan my ancestors were in. It's about family, being children (clann) of the same people. And here in the American South, though my ancestors left Scotland over 250 years ago, relatives and family still matter. (E.g., just before I logged on here, I was on the phone discussing family matters with a second cousin once removed who lives not too far in a part of Georgia where we have lived since the 1790's. Our most recent common ancestors were his great great grandparents who died some 80 and over 100 years ago, but we are still very much family.)

I find cousins quite interesting people. We may not have a lot in common, but we go through life together, through the same passages at the same times, dealing with the same issues in different ways.

To me it's not about pedantry (though one should make informed and not capricious decisions about these things) nor about tradition (which changes and evolves) as much as it is about clan, extended family, relatives, one's people, who one is, and who one's ancestors were. These ties have to be maintained and nutured, through the many interactions that we engage in with other, and through having something emblematic of our relationship, like a tartan.

[ThistleDown]

To me it's not about pedantry (though one should make informed and not capricious decisions about these things) nor about tradition (which changes and evolves) as much as it is about clan, extended family, relatives, one's people, who one is, and who one's ancestors were. These ties have to be maintained and nutured, through the many interactions that we engage in with other, and through having something emblematic of our relationship, like a tartan.

Very well said.

There was a family of MacNivens on the old Dunachton estate prior to its acquisition by the Mackintoshes in 1502 and there is a highly unlikely story about a MacNiven connection to Raits in the 13C. Between them, these gave rise to sept claims for the Mackintoshes and the Comyns in the 19C -- except that none of those MacNivens are known to have reduced their name to Niven.

Most of the Nivens/Nevans in Scotland originated in Galloway and Ayrshire and it is to this part of the country you might reasonably look, FP, if you wish to connect with your mother's ancestry. That part of our country has just as proud a heritage as has the Highlands, albeit not as popularly romantic.

As for the Owen bloodline in you, it is Welsh. Love it because it, too, makes you what you are.

[Mair of the Tribe of Mar]

There will, undoubtedly be pedants (as opposed to traditionalists) who will tell you to find out which part of Scotland your Nevin ancestors hailed from, and then join the clan (Cumin, MacKintosh, MacNaughton) that is in that area. My advice would be not to worry about it-- in the 19th and 20th century the Scots moved all over the place and clan "loyalties" changed dramatically. Today clan membership is about celebrating Scottish culture, and you can do this as well as a MacNaughton as you can a Cumin or MacKintosh. What you want to do is join that clan society which seems to be the most active in your locale. Then you can take part in those activities, as well as merely attending the local highland games in a kilt or meeting up with fellow X-Markers for the odd kilt night.

I am generally one of these pedants when it comes to scottish "traditions!" In my opinion, I believe that it is important to know where in Scotland, or in the world for that matter, a person('s family) hails from. That being said, there is nothing like enjoying Scottish culture with others of like mind.

As my wise friend suggested join the society where you will have the most fun. And remember that, as in most things, you get out of it what you are willing to put into it.

-Jason

[beloitpiper]

FreakPower, you've gotten a lot of good advice on following the Nevins line in your family, but I'd also like to add that you shouldn't discount your Welsh line too! Wlesh tartans, in my opinion, are very beautiful, and Owens is no exception.