Clan badges/crests...Do the Irish have them???

[puddlemuddle]

I was curious as to wheather or not the Irish families have anything that is similer or exactly like the scottish families caln badges? My mothers family is of the Cooley and Sharon name, so I was planning on getting an Irish Saffron to wear occasionally in her honor, but was wondering if there was sanything "family" specific available in the form of pins?
thanks,
Chad

[macwilkin]

I was curious as to wheather or not the Irish families have anything that is similer or exactly like the scottish families caln badges? My mothers family is of the Cooley and Sharon name, so I was planning on getting an Irish Saffron to wear occasionally in her honor, but was wondering if there was sanything "family" specific available in the form of pins?
thanks,
Chad

Gaelic Themes (the same folks who produced our Xmarks badge) have a line of Irish crest badges:

http://www.gaelicthemes.net/default....es_irishbadges

A word of caution: these are a relatively modern innovation, and not really based on anything in Irish heraldry. Instead of a buckle-and-strap, which is the heraldic device used to construe a clansman, the crest is contained in a stylised version of the Claddagh.

Not every Irish name is available, so there may or may not be one for your particular surnames.

Personally, I prefer a plain Irish harp, a la the one piobear wears on his caubeen.

Regards,

Todd

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I will admit to being partly responsible (along with Romilly Squire, my erstwhile partner in crime) for the "Irish" claddagh clan badge.

The highland clan system in Scotland (and in the New World after 1746) developed along totally different lines than it did in Ireland. It wasn't until the 1980s that the Irish showed any serious interest in having tartan kilts and clan badges, and that desire came from Australia and North America, not Ireland.

By the late '90s it was obvious that the Irish diaspora were serious about "clans" in the same way the Scots diaspora were-- tartans had been invented and the Irish were clamouring for kilts, jackets, and clan badges. Unfortunately, the then Chief Herald of Ireland didn't want to know and, unlike Sir Thomas Innes of Learney half a century before, did not offer any guidance to those Irish men (and women) who came knocking at his door.

At this same time I was working with my friend Romilly Squire on several projects for Gaelic Themes in Glasgow. The Irish "clan badges" seemed a natural fit, Scott Chalmers liked the idea, and the result was the present Irish clan badge offered by that firm.

There were two over-riding reasons for not using the "buckle and strap" design. First and foremost the badge had to be different than that used by the Scots-- it had to be instantly recognizable as "Irish"-- hence the use of the claddagh. There was also the problem that not all "clans" had recognized chiefs, hence the decision to use the crest of the oldest recorded arms for each name, and to place the generic family name on the claddagh. Where no arms were recorded, the traditional shamrock/harp was substituted for the crest itself.

There are, I am sure, several of you reading this who are, at this very moment, reaching for your copy of Fox-Davis-- don't bother. First, "crests", unlike arms, are not personal. Second, Irish heraldry isn't the same as English or Scottish heraldry, although it borrows from both and, as well as embracing many continental heraldic traditions, it also incorporates many uniquely Irish symbols and charges. So while Scottish heraldry may be likened to a round peg, and English heraldry to a square peg, the Irish heraldic "peg" has a lot more sides to it.

As far as the "strap and buckle" being the device used to construe a "clansman", this only appertains, or so it seems, in Scotland. Certainly those Irish chiefs who have commented prefer the claddagh to the strap and buckle on the grounds that the claddagh is recognizably "unique" to Ireland.

[macwilkin]

I will admit to being partly responsible (along with Romilly Squire, my erstwhile partner in crime) for the "Irish" claddagh clan badge.

The highland clan system in Scotland (and in the New World after 1746) developed along totally different lines than it did in Ireland. It wasn't until the 1980s that the Irish showed any serious interest in having tartan kilts and clan badges, and that desire came from Australia and North America, not Ireland.

By the late '90s it was obvious that the Irish diaspora were serious about "clans" in the same way the Scots diaspora were-- tartans had been invented and the Irish were clamouring for kilts, jackets, and clan badges. Unfortunately, the then Chief Herald of Ireland didn't want to know and, unlike Sir Thomas Innes of Learney half a century before, did not offer any guidance to those Irish men (and women) who came knocking at his door.

At this same time I was working with my friend Romilly Squire on several projects for Gaelic Themes in Glasgow. The Irish "clan badges" seemed a natural fit, Scott Chalmers liked the idea, and the result was the present Irish clan badge offered by that firm.

There were two over-riding reasons for not using the "buckle and strap" design. First and foremost the badge had to be different than that used by the Scots-- it had to be instantly recognizable as "Irish"-- hence the use of the claddagh. There was also the problem that not all "clans" had recognized chiefs, hence the decision to use the crest of the oldest recorded arms for each name, and to place the generic family name on the claddagh. Where no arms were recorded, the traditional shamrock/harp was substituted for the crest itself.

There are, I am sure, several of you reading this who are, at this very moment, reaching for your copy of Fox-Davis-- don't bother. First, "crests", unlike arms, are not personal. Second, Irish heraldry isn't the same as English or Scottish heraldry, although it borrows from both and, as well as embracing many continental heraldic traditions, it also incorporates many uniquely Irish symbols and charges. So while Scottish heraldry may be likened to a round peg, and English heraldry to a square peg, the Irish heraldic "peg" has a lot more sides to it.

As far as the "strap and buckle" being the device used to construe a "clansman", this only appertains, or so it seems, in Scotland. Certainly those Irish chiefs who have commented prefer the claddagh to the strap and buckle on the grounds that the claddagh is recognizably "unique" to Ireland.

Scott, you never cease to amaze me with your involvement in the "gentle science". This was a very interesting post indeed.

Regards,

Todd

[beloitpiper]

My old pipe band, Shamrock Club Pipes and Drums, uses the Irish badges on their caubeens. They all wear the harp surrounded by the claddagh design.

[macwilkin]

My old pipe band, Shamrock Club Pipes and Drums, uses the Irish badges on their caubeens. They all wear the harp surrounded by the claddagh design.

If I remember correctly, that is the "generic" Irish badge that Gaelic Themes designed, Greg. I'm sure Scott could tell us.

T.

[beloitpiper]

If I remember correctly, that is the "generic" Irish badge that Gaelic Themes designed, Greg. I'm sure Scott could tell us.

T.

You're right. And they got them years ago too, so they're probably the original design. I think I still have mine somewhere, I'll post a photo if I can find it.

[Hendry]

USA Kilts carrys them, though I don't see the names you are looking for

Cheers
Dave

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

One of the problems that had to be addressed was that of Irish families where no record of any heraldic achievement could be found. Despite all of our efforts there are literally hundreds of unrepresented names. There is also a commercial consideration; clan badges have to be produced in bulk. That being the case, there are probably a few instances where badges were not produced because the demand would not have justified the cost of production.