Dear Tradionalists - That's what is called deluting the concept

**cryptoman** · 24th July 13, 04:16 AM

Hello folks, I recently found a thread about the sense or nonesense in terms of pleats as a symbol for the kilt.

In short: The question came up, why not removing the pleats and calling it a kilt for the so called evolution?

My arguments:

- the kilt is a historical grown garment with keltic heritage and not just a fashion garment
- the pleats offer extra freedom of movement and aircondition
- the pleats look good and the swish and drape is unique
- there are already light weight variants availabled
- the shape and number of the pleats and the kilt material isn't specified, room for inovation

Here is the thread: http://www.skirtcafe.org/forums/view...128527#p128527

Dear tradionalists if ya thought the Utilikilt would delute the concept, you are probably wrong, the skirt wairing hipsters try to do it, luckily in their imagination.

The pleats are there for a reason, they look good and the kilt is a historical grown garment, not just fashionable. The main points.

Where are my bagpipes and regimental kilts? I need a break from this nonesense.

**OC Richard** · 24th July 13, 04:42 AM

A cool word there, deluted, and suitably cryptic! I take it to mean being watered-down and deceived at the same time

Anyhow to me if you remove the pleats it isn't a "kilt" any more, because doesn't the word "kilt" mean pleat or gather?

**English Bloke** · 24th July 13, 06:50 AM

If it hasn't got any pleats, then it isn't a Kilt. People can call it a Kilt, in fact people can call it what they like... But it still isn't a Kilt.

Not sure what the original article says. The site you linked to has crashed.

Skirt...

Kilt, Skirt, Kilt.

See? It's easy!

**cryptoman** · 24th July 13, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by English Bloke

If it hasn't got any pleats, then it isn't a Kilt. People can call it a Kilt, in fact people can call it what they like... But it still isn't a Kilt.

Not sure what the original article says. The site you linked to has crashed.

Skirt...

Kilt, Skirt, Kilt.

See? It's easy!

Might be the laggy server they use. More often than not I experience the same while trying to access.

It was like "We redefine it and call it evolution because male fashion evolves and there is no need to tie a garment to old geezers from the cold north."

**Grizzly** · 24th July 13, 07:35 AM

I vote for the one in the middle............what? It's not a poll? Foiled again.

**adempsey10** · 24th July 13, 08:01 AM

But it is ALSO a fashion garment and as such the fashion side of kilt wearing will cause variations in the appearance and style of the kilt. If a kilt maker decides to 'innovate' his kilt by dropping the pleats it might still be a kilt, whether your opinion says otherwise or not. The same way the model T is still considered a car. If you want to be a traditionalist, wear the traditional garb the traditional way. What happens on the 'fashion' side of kilt wearing shouldn't be of any concern to you since a tradition, by definition, is impervious to fashion trends.

There's also no need for name calling: "skirt wearing hipsters" It doesn't promote positive bonds between members. I'm proud of being a skirt wearing hipster. Now, excuse me while I go find my wayfarers.

**creagdhubh** · 24th July 13, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by English Bloke

If it hasn't got any pleats, then it isn't a Kilt. People can call it a Kilt, in fact people can call it what they like... But it still isn't a Kilt.

Not sure what the original article says. The site you linked to has crashed.

Skirt...

Kilt, Skirt, Kilt.

See? It's easy!

Agreed. It is rather easy isn't it, John? And your visual examples help reinforce this notion.

**Hopper250** · 24th July 13, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by English Bloke

If it hasn't got any pleats, then it isn't a Kilt. People can call it a Kilt, in fact people can call it what they like... But it still isn't a Kilt.

Kilt, Skirt, Kilt.

See? It's easy!

She might be wearing a Kilt though since it does appear to have pleats in the back.

**cryptoman** · 24th July 13, 10:02 AM

That said, the evolution of a garment doesn't happend at reanactment festivals but in the fashion world, so an evolution of a garment can happend but usually not along the line of crazy funky edgy, so that the definition of a kilt would get 20 footnotes who would lead to a skirt-like-garment-without-zipper minimalistic denotation.

The fashion scene and the scene of traditional reanactment, are both influenced by the general definition of a kilt and if someone makes stuff up and calls his skirt kilt has no influence on the general definition, unless it is accepted in the general public, which I doubt. It is the delution of the definition I am worring about. If ya stretch a terms to wide it become meaningless.

American Mountain Hardware tried to sell a wrap arround skirt without pleats as a kilt. Obviously miserable because a few years later they relaunched it under the label Elkommando Kilt which is sold out until these days.

**creagdhubh** · 24th July 13, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Hopper250

She might be wearing a Kilt though since it does appear to have pleats in the back.

If there are in fact pleats, then I would venture to call it a "kilted skirt," which is indeed a style that many women tend to wear at varying lengths, and in this case, a lovely mid-thigh length.

http://www.kinlochanderson.com/women.../tartan-skirts

Cheers,