KIlt Color Palettes, The STA, the SRT, and Wilsons of Bannokburn

[jsrnephdoc]

Fellow American members of this forum may also monitor monthly YouTube (and now, apparently reddit) videos emanating from USA Kilts, who also support this forum.

I find those "First Friday" broadcasts entertaining while riding my exercise bike, and the hosts often interview people prominent in the fabric and kilt making business; e.g., Geology Professor Barb Tewksbury, Tartan historian Peter MacDonald, and principals from many of the Scottish mills (Lochcarron and House of Edgar to mention two).

This month's episode dwelled for a bit on the colors used by Wilsons of Bannockburn during their time of pre-eminence in the business, then segued to a brief discussion of at least two mills attempting to replicate those colors (I remember HoE; the other might have been Marton Mills, but I was concentrating more at that moment on finding my anaerobic threshold on the bike than on dye colors).

USA Kilts proprietor Rocky concluded the discussion by asking for comments from viewers regarding what specific tartans THEY would like to see redone in Wilsons of Bannockburn color palette.

I, for one, don't really know just where I'd actually SEE specimens. On the SRT website, what many recognize as Robertson Red (modern) is recorded as woven by Wilsons, but the SRT website doesn't dwell on that, and when one looks at mill websites, the "electronic swatches" of Robertson Red (modern) don't all look identical.

I don't get any smarter looking at (or for) the STA website, because it seems to have been "under (re)construction now for at least 2 years. I have no nuanced understanding of the relationships between the STA and SRT, whether they're complementary or competitive, and even LESS understanding of what fabric I'd get if somehow the mythical time travel stones from Outlander became available to me and somehow I could set that "Wayback Machine" to "not so far back" and order up some fabric from Wilson's myself.

My intent here is to see if there's a Robertson Red tartan that I could wear comfortably. I have a Red (dark) kilt that I like, a Red (weathered) that actually was made for me by mistake and rarely comes out of my closet, but no standard Red (modern) because it reminds me too much of a stoplight

[OC Richard]

There have been many instances where Peter MacDonald has posted photos of Wilsons specimens, for example in some of these articles

https://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/research.htm

For example here

https://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/Th..._in_Tartan.pdf

Here are several Wilsons samples

https://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/Th...Collection.pdf

[OC Richard]

Here's the common colour-schemes being sold nowadays.

Essentially it's

Modern: Evolved in the mid-to-late 19th century after chemical dyes were introduced.
Red varies from a pure red to scarlet (a somewhat orange-y red), blue and green range from dark to extremely dark.

Ancient: Seems to have appeared around 1900-1910 and became extremely popular in the 1920s and 1930s. It was touted as a return to the colours got from natural dyes, but it really wasn't.
Red varies from scarlet to red-orange, blue and green are equally pale pastel-tones.

Reproduction/Weathered: Introduced by DC Dalgliesh in the late 1940s, now mainly woven by Lochcarron.
Red is a more or less neutral red, blue becomes grey, green becomes brown.

Muted: Mainly seen from House of Edgar, not sure when they introduced it, 1960s? 1970s?
Red is, well, muted. Blue becomes a French blue. Green is slightly olive. (Strathmore has their own version of muted.)



Note that in Modern colours blue and green are both dark, while in Ancient colours blue and green are both pale.

Wilson's from what I've seen aren't like that. Rather, in the same cloth blue can be dark and green pale.

I believe some, or all, of these plaids worn by the Atholl Highlanders are quite old Wilsons fabric

[figheadair]

This month's episode dwelled for a bit on the colors used by Wilsons of Bannockburn during their time of pre-eminence in the business, then segued to a brief discussion of at least two mills attempting to replicate those colors (I remember HoE; the other might have been Marton Mills, but I was concentrating more at that moment on finding my anaerobic threshold on the bike than on dye colors).

To be clear, no firm currently weaves any tartan in Wilsons' shades as a stock item. I am fortunate to have access to a number of Wilsons' specimens and have had some copied for specific projects. For these projects I exclusively use Lochcarron because they have their own dyehouse and can match with a high degree of accuracy. For example, here is a reconstruction of a MacDonald piece c.1820 that I did with them a couple of years ago.

USA Kilts proprietor Rocky concluded the discussion by asking for comments from viewers regarding what specific tartans THEY would like to see redone in Wilsons of Bannockburn color palette.

I, for one, don't really know just where I'd actually SEE specimens. On the SRT website, what many recognize as Robertson Red (modern) is recorded as woven by Wilsons, but the SRT website doesn't dwell on that, and when one looks at mill websites, the "electronic swatches" of Robertson Red (modern) don't all look identical.

The shades available to the STR in their graphics package is extremely limited. As a principle, all databases record generic colours and and not individual palettes - that would result in the Db being five times larger than necessary and would be at odds with the principle of recording the sett and it's history.

I don't get any smarter looking at (or for) the STA website, because it seems to have been "under (re)construction now for at least 2 years. I have no nuanced understanding of the relationships between the STA and SRT, whether they're complementary or competitive, and even LESS understanding of what fabric I'd get if somehow the mythical time travel stones from Outlander became available to me and somehow I could set that "Wayback Machine" to "not so far back" and order up some fabric from Wilson's myself.

The two organisation are separate and different but the STA works with, and is the principal advisor to, the SRT. The STA's Db is about 20% larger that that of the SRT but it is not available online. I'm pleased to say that the issue of the STA is being gripped, I'm working on some of the content and expect it to have some limited functionality by end-Feb, with the intent for it to be fully developed by April.

Wilsons' wove three Robertson tartans: Red, Red with white stripe and Hunting. They went bankrupt in 1926 but it is absolutely possible to have any of their tartans reproduced as a special order.

[Adrian]

Interesting, I've just done a Fraser tartan using ex D C Dalgleish yarn stock it will be away to the finishers next week. Had a choice of the doing the grey and brown squares or green and blue, did green and blue. The people I'm working with - dyehouses can match any shades, but there is always an additional cost to custom colours. I'm working on our stock colour set at the moment, One thing I am prepared to do is to hold stock of a few of these colours if there is demand for tartan woven in these colors.

[Adrian]

[Adrian]

We have a loom set up (since around October 2025) to produce doublewidth heavyweight tartan fabric (about 500 g/lm), our business arrangements will have completed the first 10 weaves next week with any luck. Weave capacity is available and its woven in Scotland and its local investment... should be able to achieve 1-2 weaves / week there are many decades of tartan producing experience in the dyeing-warping-weaving-finishing teams that are involved.
We will be happy to weave tartan fabric, its jobs in an area that's suffered in the past.

[jsrnephdoc]

To be clear, no firm currently weaves any tartan in Wilsons' shades as a stock item. I am fortunate to have access to a number of Wilsons' specimens and have had some copied for specific projects. For these projects I exclusively use Lochcarron because they have their own dyehouse and can match with a high degree of accuracy.

(and)

I'm pleased to say that the issue of the STA is being gripped, I'm working on some of the content and expect it to have some limited functionality by end-Feb, with the intent for it to be fully developed by April.

(and)

Wilsons' wove three Robertson tartans: Red, Red with white stripe and Hunting. They went bankrupt in 1926 but it is absolutely possible to have any of their tartans reproduced as a special order.

OC Richard posted several articles either written by or curated by you. In one of them,

Old & Rare Scottish Tartans by D. W. Stewart
An examination of the tartans included in Stewart’s 1893 publication.



I found these images of "Robertson White Stripe (one an electronic swatch, another a garment made from the fabric:

I like the look of that, and would be interested in the opinions of others. The white stripe permits other colors to speak up a bit more in that sea of RED(!!!) than they do in the Robertson Red (modern), in my opinion.

I'm guessing a weaving of enough 13 or 16 oz cloth for one or two garments would be quite expensive. Were I to obtain JUST one (a kilt) I'd do the 16 oz. My son wears trews, not kilts, and my sense is that 13 oz would be preferable for that usage while not dramatically less suited to production of a kilt.

Is that something Lochcarron could do? I see there's another participant in this thread (Adrian) who is doing custom weaves, some of them using yarns he apparently obtained from DC Dalgliesh. Another option would be to have whomever weaves it provide the cloth to Barb Tewksbury, but I don't think she makes trews.

Here's a photo of my "trewed" son at I at the Bitterroot Valley (Montana, USA) Highland Games at the end of the pandemic. The castle, of course, is image plastered on canvas, but we glimpsed the real deal just two summers ago (not clad in tartan, so no possibility of photo documentation of that).

(The Montana photo was taken, obviously, before OCR taught me to retire my ecru kilt hose, and before I had a proper day sporran).

And a follow-up to the relationship between the STA and the SRT: how would/will the two organizations interact, or is that a work in progress better left to incubate in private?

Thanks so much!!!

[Adrian]

It's not economic to do small custom weaves with business relationships I have, it needs to be a minimum of at least 25m. I pay a fixed charge for the commision weaving operation, and a minimum finishing charge which is what it costs for 30m to be finished and an energy surcharge. I am aware of one or 2 small weavers who may produce a small weave. I bought yarn stock from the liquidators of D C Dalgliesh and will be buying ecru yarn in quantity ready for dyeing in the first half of this year. The economics of weaving are tight whether you do all operations in house or spread it across the various textile industry contractors. I have a website (Eskdale Tartans), a lot of work has been done and a startup business will trade. A few other bits on the to do list should happen soon. If we can work with anyone on a weave do get in touch, there's always the option of someone else buying the additional surplus fabric on a custom weave so it can be produced in an adequate volume.

[Adrian]

If there is interest in reproducing some of the alternative more historic color palettes in a small volume then perhaps a group of interested people and kiltmakers could collaborate. But please don't rely on what you see on an Internet device for color reproduction, we need to see it. I can use the dyehouse that did the work for D C Dalgleish and have another dyehouse behind the weaving contractor.