Dear Tradionalists - That's what is called deluting the concept

**Hopper250** · 24th July 13, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by English Bloke

If it hasn't got any pleats, then it isn't a Kilt. People can call it a Kilt, in fact people can call it what they like... But it still isn't a Kilt.

Kilt, Skirt, Kilt.

See? It's easy!

She might be wearing a Kilt though since it does appear to have pleats in the back.

**cryptoman** · 24th July 13, 10:02 AM

That said, the evolution of a garment doesn't happend at reanactment festivals but in the fashion world, so an evolution of a garment can happend but usually not along the line of crazy funky edgy, so that the definition of a kilt would get 20 footnotes who would lead to a skirt-like-garment-without-zipper minimalistic denotation.

The fashion scene and the scene of traditional reanactment, are both influenced by the general definition of a kilt and if someone makes stuff up and calls his skirt kilt has no influence on the general definition, unless it is accepted in the general public, which I doubt. It is the delution of the definition I am worring about. If ya stretch a terms to wide it become meaningless.

American Mountain Hardware tried to sell a wrap arround skirt without pleats as a kilt. Obviously miserable because a few years later they relaunched it under the label Elkommando Kilt which is sold out until these days.

**creagdhubh** · 24th July 13, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Hopper250

She might be wearing a Kilt though since it does appear to have pleats in the back.

If there are in fact pleats, then I would venture to call it a "kilted skirt," which is indeed a style that many women tend to wear at varying lengths, and in this case, a lovely mid-thigh length.

http://www.kinlochanderson.com/women.../tartan-skirts

Cheers,

**English Bloke** · 24th July 13, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Hopper250

She might be wearing a Kilt though since it does appear to have pleats in the back.

I've never seen a bloke wearing a mid thigh length kilt that has been taken seriously by his kilted peers. Each to their own but I still say the lady in the middle is wearing a skirt. Could be a kilted skirt? But it's still a skirt.

Originally Posted by adempsey10

... If a kilt maker decides to 'innovate' his kilt by dropping the pleats it might still be a kilt, whether your opinion says otherwise or not. ...

You're right AD. I forgot the bit where, "People can call it a Kilt, in fact people can call it what they like... But in my opinion... it still isn't a Kilt".

Because of course, we're all entitled to one of those. Doesn't necessarily mean we're right... or wrong... just means we have an opinion.

As for innovative fashion... I'm of a mind, if it ain't broke don't fix it and so I do like your point that "tradition, by definition, is impervious to fashion trends". To be honest, that pleases and reassures me but then I'm hardly an avant garde fashionista.

**Grizzly** · 24th July 13, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by English Bloke

As for innovative fashion... I'm of a mind, if it ain't broke don't fix it and so I do like your point that "tradition, by definition, is impervious to fashion trends". To be honest, that pleases and reassures me but then I'm hardly an avant garde fashionista.

I'm not so sure about that John, you are at the forefront, if not a style icon in matching the DJ (denim Jacket) with the kilt and not forgetting the Akubra. Now that's class! A unique and very distinctive look IMHO.

**adempsey10** · 24th July 13, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by English Bloke

I've never seen a bloke wearing a mid thigh length kilt that has been taken seriously by his kilted peers. Each to their own but I still say the lady in the middle is wearing a skirt. Could be a kilted skirt? But it's still a skirt.

You're right AD. I forgot the bit where, "People can call it a Kilt, in fact people can call it what they like... But in my opinion... it still isn't a Kilt".

Because of course, we're all entitled to one of those. Doesn't necessarily mean we're right... or wrong... just means we have an opinion.

As for innovative fashion... I'm of a mind, if it ain't broke don't fix it and so I do like your point that "tradition, by definition, is impervious to fashion trends". To be honest, that pleases and reassures me but then I'm hardly an avant garde fashionista.

Dont get me wrong, I'd hate to see a kilt lose its pleats... just like I never want baby blue suits to ever come back into fashion, or high waisted pants.... or basically anything from the 80s.
I would like to see some more kilt makers making kilts that rest a little lower than the natural waist. Sportkilt makes some but I'd prefer a PV or wool tartan kilt that sits where my pants sit. Just my preference though.

**English Bloke** · 24th July 13, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by adempsey10

...I would like to see some more kilt makers making kilts that rest a little lower than the natural waist. ... I'd prefer a PV or wool tartan kilt that sits where my pants sit.

Union Kilts

**davidlpope** · 24th July 13, 05:23 PM

Freedom Kilts offers tartan kilts that sit lower on the waist. So does USA Kilts.

See these links for details:

http://www.freedomkilts.com/fit.php
http://www.usakilts.com/custompages/...t_measure.html

**Spartan Tartan** · 24th July 13, 05:45 PM

when a kilt maker asks the customer how long to make the kilt...that is the opportunity for the buyer to specify exactly at what level they intend to wear that kilt. If you want it to fit how you want it to fit, then you need made to order and not off the rack. REGARDLESS of where you wear your kilt in terms of height... I could have a pants waisted kilt easily by specifying no rise to a kilt maker. If that is what you want, you need not wish any longer. There are members of this very forum that will do as you specify.

fyi

**adempsey10** · 24th July 13, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Spartan Tartan

when a kilt maker asks the customer how long to make the kilt...that is the opportunity for the buyer to specify exactly at what level they intend to wear that kilt. If you want it to fit how you want it to fit, then you need made to order and not off the rack. REGARDLESS of where you wear your kilt in terms of height... I could have a pants waisted kilt easily by specifying no rise to a kilt maker. If that is what you want, you need not wish any longer. There are members of this very forum that will do as you specify.

fyi

I would prefer an off the rack kilt in that style. I wouldnt have a pair of jeans tailored, so I wouldnt have a kilt that I wear in lieu of jeans tailored either. It seems ridiculous to me to spend good money to have something tailored that I will likely wear while walking the dogs, or going to the pubs, or mucking about in general. Four or Five PV off the rack kilts reasonably priced at $60 - $90 would be perfect for my jean and shorts replacement needs.

I would, however, have a suit tailored. Similarly, I would have a kilt tailored and spend extra money for a kilt that I can wear on formal occasions that would normally call for suits.