Feileadh Mor tartan as camouflage?

[Sir William]

The OP's question, though, wasn't about military uniforms or tactics. It was about hunting/stalking, sleeping in the open, and hiding. Not by uniformed soldiers, but by average civilian Highlanders.

I would tend to think that camouflage would be a natural benefit of tartans made with natural dyes. The Highlands do have a lot of colour in certain times of the year, and even bright tartans might blend in. As to whether they purposefully made their tartans with this in mind, though, I wot not.

You missed my point entirely, which was camouflage was not a common concept prior to the mid-19th century. Tartan may have provided that capability, but it was not the intent when the weaver the his dyes. He used what dyes he could obtain.

[Bamamedic]

You missed my point entirely, which was camouflage was not a common concept prior to the mid-19th century. Tartan may have provided that capability, but it was not the intent when the weaver the his dyes. He used what dyes he could obtain.

It's fascinating to think that people who leveraged technology into world wide empires couldn't even conceptualize hiding from a stag, or an enemy. Especially since such things were long known to many of the other peoples of the world.

[Bruce Scott]

You missed my point entirely, which was camouflage was not a common concept prior to the mid-19th century. Tartan may have provided that capability, but it was not the intent when the weaver the his dyes. He used what dyes he could obtain.

It's fascinating to think that people who leveraged technology into world wide empires couldn't even conceptualize hiding from a stag, or an enemy. Especially since such things were long known to many of the other peoples of the world.

This suggests that Highlanders had a good understanding of the concept:

"They delight in variegated garments, especially stripes, and their favorite colours are purple and blue. Their ancestors wore plaids of many colours, and numbers still retain this custom, but the majority now in their dress prefer a dark brown, imitating the leaves of the heather that, when lying on the heath in the the day they may not be discovered by the appearance of their clothes; in these rather than covered, they brave the severe storms in the open air, and sometimes lay themselves down to sleep in the midst of the snow."

The Habits of the Highlanders, George Buchanan, 1582
https://books.google.com.au/books?id...page&q&f=false

[Me cousin Jack]

This suggests that Highlanders had a good understanding of the concept:

"They delight in variegated garments, especially stripes, and their favorite colours are purple and blue. Their ancestors wore plaids of many colours, and numbers still retain this custom, but the majority now in their dress prefer a dark brown, imitating the leaves of the heather that, when lying on the heath in the the day they may not be discovered by the appearance of their clothes; in these rather than covered, they brave the severe storms in the open air, and sometimes lay themselves down to sleep in the midst of the snow."

The Habits of the Highlanders, George Buchanan, 1582
https://books.google.com.au/books?id...page&q&f=false

enjoyed reading several of those letters, thanks.

[Tobus]

You missed my point entirely, which was camouflage was not a common concept prior to the mid-19th century. Tartan may have provided that capability, but it was not the intent when the weaver the his dyes. He used what dyes he could obtain.

The "camouflage" we think of today, with fabric woven or dyed into random patterns, was indeed a foreign concept. But the art of camouflage, or blending into one's environment for stealth, goes back to the earliest humans and is found all throughout nature. There is no reason to think that Scots were oblivious to this in the 18th century, and indeed historical evidence suggests that they took advantage of it well.

[tripleblessed]

The belief that natural dyes are dull and chemical are bright is a misapprehension of the process and the nature of the chemicals.
Natural dyes ARE chemical dyes, just chemicals that appear in nature. Modern dyes tend to be lab chemicals. Either set can yield
both bright and dull colors, per the choice of the dyer. Another major factor is the mordant used. The same dye on the same fabric
can yield completely different colors, or different hues of the same color by the use of a different mordant. Or the same mordant
with a different pot. Or no mordant, just a different pot, in which case the metal in the pot can act as a mordant. Very old and
sometimes complicated technology, but no less effective than how it's done today. Easier today, maybe, but the old ways still work.

[figheadair]

The belief that natural dyes are dull and chemical are bright is a misapprehension of the process and the nature of the chemicals.
Natural dyes ARE chemical dyes, just chemicals that appear in nature. Modern dyes tend to be lab chemicals. Either set can yield
both bright and dull colors, per the choice of the dyer. Another major factor is the mordant used. The same dye on the same fabric
can yield completely different colors, or different hues of the same color by the use of a different mordant. Or the same mordant
with a different pot. Or no mordant, just a different pot, in which case the metal in the pot can act as a mordant. Very old and
sometimes complicated technology, but no less effective than how it's done today. Easier today, maybe, but the old ways still work.

And to illustrate the point, these shades were all produced with traditional natural dyes.

[dcommini]

I can attest that the kilt is decent camouflage. I was tasked to play as OPFOR (opposing forces) at my unit's Annual Training where we were training another unit to deploy. I was on one of the ambush lanes wearing my Armstrong Tartan, foliage green socks, tan boots, tan t-shirt, and an ACU load bearing vest. Even when standing in plain sight most people did not see me.

I think just about any tartan could have been used for stalking deer or other purposes, because as other have metnioned its more about breaking up shapes than it is blending perfectly.

[LKM]

The claim of tartan as camouflage goes back a lot further then the kilt. It has been debated if the Britons used tartan as camouflage or just fashion when fighting Rome. Those debates can be fun to listen to at times. I have spoken with some re-enactment groups that have tested it and found that most muted or hunting tartans do work as camouflage.

I think this leaves the question of did they use it as camouflage?

[Bamamedic]

Maybe we're all talking past each other, using one word to signify three different things...

1) Camouflage - the act of hiding, preferably in plain sight. (art)

2) Camouflage - the organized knowledge of how best to hide, preferably in plain sight. (science)

3) Camouflage - fabric and fashion design oriented specifically toward the organized knowledge of how best to hide, preferably in plain sight. (technology)

Similarly, while the concept of gravity as a mathematically expressible interacting attraction between all bodies (all things having some value of mass) is recent, people have LONG known the best ways not to fall, and went to great lengths to secure themselves from falling. With varying degrees of success.