Are You A Clansman?

[davedove]

Heraldically speaking, when you wear your chief's badge, you are showing your loyalty to the cheif. At the heart of it, this is what it means to be a member of the clan. Are you loyal to your clan cheif? Even if one could not prove through geneaology that they were related to the clan, if you were loyal to the cheif, you'd most likely be considered a member.

Even with those requirements, there's not really a Scottish clan I can claim. I do have some Scottish ancestors.

The only "clan" to which I have sworn loyalty is the US Army.

And as Steve said, I a member of this great internet clan.

[Mike1]

Gilmore, clans aren't what they used to be, but they still exist, albeit in a different form.

I believe gilmore clarified himself, by correctly stating the clan system is now dead. Anyone can romantically cling to the idea that they are a member of a clan, but I think we need to remain on firm footing by understanding there is a tremendous difference between what it meant to be a member of a clan and being a member of a contemporary clan society.

Let's not split hairs on this thread, else it will be headed to the bin, same as similar threads before it.

[Sketraw]

Dave, you can join any clan you wish, you don't have to be a so called 'sept' or of the name of that clan or any blood ties what so ever. If they accept you as a member of the Clan/Clan Society then you are a member.

That's how its been for generations don't be drawn into Skene's Victorian romanticism of 'septs' and/or being of the name or family.

To quote Sir Thomas Innes of Learney, GCVO WS (1893-1971) Lord Lyon King of Arms, 1945-1969, after being Carrick Pursuivant and Albany Herald in the 1930’s makes mention in the book Clan Septs and Regiments of the Scottish Highlands 1952 co-authored by Frank Adam that; “septs must be regarded as a rather wonderful effort of imagination” and “The very word ‘sept’ is delusive and no serious attention can now be attached to Skene’s theories about ‘septs”. He also states that some Clan historians could be being found guilty of “sept-snatching”.

"So sometimes sept families are related to the clan chief and his family, but, more likely, they would not be."

[Sketraw]

I believe gilmore clarified himself, by correctly stating the clan system is now dead. Anyone can romantically cling to the idea that they are a member of a clan, but I think we need to remain on firm footing by understanding there is a tremendous difference between what it meant to be a member of a clan and being a member of a contemporary clan society.

Let's not split hairs on this thread, else it will be headed to the bin, same as similar threads before it.

The Clan System (enfisis on the system) may well be dead but the 'Clan' has taken on a different remit to what it was before. It is one of a sense of belonging, kinship & friendship; participation of the like minded and a respect for ones ancestors & history good or bad. The Clan System as a form of self governing body perhaps might be dead but not the Clan.

[Glen C]

Is it your name, your ancestry, or a membership card that gives you bragging rights as a Clan MacX clansman?

I don't know about "bragging rights", but I do know I'm a Chisholm by surname, geneology, clan society association, and a DNA relationship to the original Norman chiefs. I agree that the relationship between the chief and his people doesn't exist as it once did, even though in the mid 19th century a large number of Canadian Chisholm's swore an oath of fealty to the new chief. I have found that a clan relationship does still exist among the extended family itself. As a young hippie in the late 1960's I traveled (hitch hiked) all over the US and Canada and always looked for fellow Chisholm's. I always found them friendly and helpful. Once, my mother was traveling alone in New Zealand and became stranded. She went to the phone book and called the first Chisholm she found, they gave her comradeship a place to stay until she could make arrangments to get home. So is the clan dead? Maybe, but "The Blood is Strong".

[sharpdressedscot]

I'm a Morrison by my mother's side, but I really don't think I need to prove it by having a card, but I can see why they do it though and that's not a problem.

[Jack Daw]

The Clan System (enfisis on the system) may well be dead but the 'Clan' has taken on a different remit to what it was before. It is one of a sense of belonging, kinship & friendship; participation of the like minded and a respect for ones ancestors & history good or bad. The Clan System as a form of self governing body perhaps might be dead but not the Clan.

Spot on.

[michael steinrok]

The Irish don't have clans, we have gangs! X-Marks is my only 'clan'.

My wife on the other hand, is related to the Lamont and Thomson clans on her father's side and Stuart and Burns on her mothers.

The Irish have Clans. I am a chieftain in the Clan Cian (read O'Carroll) But I also consider myself an Xmarker

[macwilkin]

The Irish have Clans. I am a chieftain in the Clan Cian (read O'Carroll) But I also consider myself an Xmarker

That's a bit of a sticky wicket, though...the Irish have modern clan societies, but the Irish do not have a clan system similar to the Scottish one.

The Irish genealogist Sean Murphy has an excellent series of articles dealing with the issue of Irish clans & chiefs on his web site:

http://homepage.eircom.net/%7Eseanjmurphy/chiefs/

Murphy was involved with outing the pretender Terrence MacCarthy back in the late '90s.

Regards,

Todd

[macwilkin]

That's pretty funny....but not exactly true.

The Irish do have clans, some which have gone back as long as the Scots clans in history (at least). Here's the ones I know of:

Clan Cian
http://www.clancian-carroll.com/

Clan Egan USA
http://home.sprynet.com/~mttaylor/clanegan.htm

Clan Kelly
http://www.clankelly.org/

Clan McAteer Ireland
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~cd200/

Clan McLaughlin of Donegal
http://members.aol.com/lochlan/clanmac.htm

Clan Muir Society
http://www.theclanmuir.org/index.html

Clann Mac Aodhagáin
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/5500/

Doyle Clan
http://www.doyle.com.au/index.htm

Dysert Ó Dea Clan Association
http://www.odeaclan.org/

O'Dochartaigh Doherty Clann
http://www.odochartaigh.org/

Cassidy Clan
http://www.cassidyclan.org/

Clan MacMahon Association
http://www.orgsites.com/ca/clanmacmahon/

Curtin Clan Association
http://www.curtin.org/

Hickey Clan
http://www.hickeyclan.com/

MacDermot Clan
http://www.macdermot.com/

Maguire Clan
http://www.csn.ul.ie/~ger/maguire/

McManus Clan Association
http://members.aol.com/manus/mcmanus.html

O Mahony Society
http://cat.spindata.com/mahony/welcome.html

O'Brien Clan
http://www.obrienclan.com/

O'Gara Clan Association
http://www.ogara.org/

O'Malley Clan Association
http://www.omalley-clan.org/

O'More (O'Mórda) Clan Society
http://www.clanomore.com/

Ryan Clan Association U. S. Sept
http://www.ryans.org/

Sweeney Clan
http://www.sweeneyclan.com/

Waldron Clan Association
http://www.mayo-ireland.ie/Geneal/Fa...ns/Waldron.htm

The Ulster Clans
http://www.ulsterclans.org/index.html

See my post above for Sean Murphy's series of articles on the issue of "Irish clans".

T.