Black Tie means a bow tie not a black coloured tie

[macwilkin]

I do not own, and refuse to buy, a full set of "black tie" garb. I would use such attire at most once every four or five years, and would have to manufacture reason to do that. I'm not likely to go to the trouble to rent formal wear, either--that level of formality is just too artificial for me. In short, if the invitation specifies "black tie," I won't be there. You need not worry about seeing me wearing a tartan tie over my tweed kilt at your precious black tie event.

Remember, gents, that kilts were originally WORK clothing for rural folks, not formal wear. My grandmother taught us to "put your best money in your everyday shoes," meaning buy good quality on what you will wear often. Don't spend money on stuff you won't use.

I've never understood the connotation that "rural" people somehow resent all manner of "proper" attire. I've heard this a lot here in SW Missouri, but if you look at photos from the late 19th century/early 20th century, people simply knew the levels of attire for certain functions. Robert Burns was a puir ploughman frae Ayr, but he also could socialise with the gentry, and benefited from it through patronage.

My grandfather and great-grandfather, for example, were Iowa farmers, but both owned suits (not just one), French-cuff shirts and other kit. Sure, they wore overalls in the fields, but when it was time to go to church or lodge, they wore their best, as they respected those institutions.

Yes, the kilt may have been "work" clothes at one time, but the kilt also could be "formal" attire as well -- the pedigree isn't really a good excuse for rejecting formal attire.

I'm afraid this post is just as judgemental of those of us who take pride in our formal attire as the people who judge those who do not wear it.

Regards,

Todd

[gilmore]

What is a prat?

What is a chav?

Should I be concerned?

[Nervous Jock]

What is a prat?

What is a chav?

Should I be concerned?

no, I love you crazy Americans

[xena]

What is a prat?

What is a chav?

Should I be concerned?

"Prat" is what you are likely sitting on. No, not the chair, your backside.

"Chav" is a derogatory term for child, although it can be applied to persons of almost any age. Rough equivalent to "trailer trash" without the trailer. Usually inclined to criminality, relatively uneducated and either in low paying jobs or unemployed.

Both terms are British in origin, and likely unfamiliar to people who speak "American."

No, I don't think you should be concerned. Someone is just venting. I am under the impression Chavs don't wear kilts much. Anyone from the right-hand side of the pond want to clarify?

But, I know what they mean. I went to my son's High School Graduation. Some of the parents there seemed to have the concept that having a clean T-shirt on was dressing up! I saw mullets too! Weren't they banned by international treaty?

[Carolina Kiltman]

Just have to throw in my tuppence worth. As a card carrying member of the Benevolent Protective Order of Old Farts, I am inclined to bemoan the demise of what I call "good taste" in clothing. I am not referring here to style, but to how the style is worn. I have seen T-Shirts and Jeans worn where I would wear at least a Sport Coat and a tieless shirt, and the wearer was neatly dressed. The T-shirt was clean, had no "message" on it, the Jeans were ditto, and pressed.

When I am working in my shop, I dress appropriately. When I go to a "Black Tie" dinner, I also dress appropriately. If I am mucking out a barn or stable, I dress appropriately. When I go into the "market" place, I do not wear the manure stained work clothes I wore in the barn.

That is, I think, the basic message of all the previous posts. I'll climb down now.

[Clockwork John]

Just have to throw in my tuppence worth. As a card carrying member of the Benevolent Protective Order of Old Farts, I am inclined to bemoan the demise of what I call "good taste" in clothing. I am not referring here to style, but to how the style is worn. I have seen T-Shirts and Jeans worn where I would wear at least a Sport Coat and a tieless shirt, and the wearer was neatly dressed. The T-shirt was clean, had no "message" on it, the Jeans were ditto, and pressed.

When I am working in my shop, I dress appropriately. When I go to a "Black Tie" dinner, I also dress appropriately. If I am mucking out a barn or stable, I dress appropriately. When I go into the "market" place, I do not wear the manure stained work clothes I wore in the barn.

That is, I think, the basic message of all the previous posts. I'll climb down now.

I think you really captured both the substance and tone of what was meant by the OP, as well as many who agreed with him, and several who, superficially at least, disagreed with him.

I may not be an "old fart"... I am, in fact, what you might call a "young upstart" or "whippersnapper" or something along those lines, but I agree completely.
I may have grown up poor (hell, I'm still poor, or at best "Working Class"), but I always try to dress well, and I darn sure make sure I dress as appropriately as my means permit for every occasion.

[kevinkinney]

Mind you....when Rex was hit by a cold blast of Duluth air, he completely forgot proper dress, and left his sporran in the hotel.



(hee hee, I have no idea who this gent really is, but the resemblance is striking.)

Kevin

[CDNSushi]

"Prat" is what you are likely sitting on. No, not the chair, your backside.

"Chav" is a derogatory term for child, although it can be applied to persons of almost any age. Rough equivalent to "trailer trash" without the trailer. Usually inclined to criminality, relatively uneducated and either in low paying jobs or unemployed.

Both terms are British in origin, and likely unfamiliar to people who speak "American."

Well, thank goodness SOMEBODY cleared that up. I thought it was some kind of skin condition.

As for speaking American, I've lived my entire life as an honest, humble Canadian, and I don't think I've ever seen or heard those terms until today. Funny, they didn't cover that vocabulary in college when I took English 101. Heh...

[bikeolounger]

I've never understood the connotation that "rural" people somehow resent all manner of "proper" attire. I've heard this a lot here in SW Missouri, but if you look at photos from the late 19th century/early 20th century, people simply knew the levels of attire for certain functions. Robert Burns was a puir ploughman frae Ayr, but he also could socialise with the gentry, and benefited from it through patronage.

My grandfather and great-grandfather, for example, were Iowa farmers, but both owned suits (not just one), French-cuff shirts and other kit. Sure, they wore overalls in the fields, but when it was time to go to church or lodge, they wore their best, as they respected those institutions.

Yes, the kilt may have been "work" clothes at one time, but the kilt also could be "formal" attire as well -- the pedigree isn't really a good excuse for rejecting formal attire.

I'm afraid this post is just as judgemental of those of us who take pride in our formal attire as the people who judge those who do not wear it.

Regards,

Todd

And you misread my intent. The apparent judgemental voice was to make a point--that too many who wear formal attire who look down their noses at those of us who cannot justify the expenses involved in wearing the stuff. In general, I simply find that because I don't "fit in" for such formal occasions, I just don't go.

[macwilkin]

And you misread my intent. The apparent judgemental voice was to make a point--that too many who wear formal attire who look down their noses at those of us who cannot justify the expenses involved in wearing the stuff. In general, I simply find that because I don't "fit in" for such formal occasions, I just don't go.

But aren't you being just as judgemental and making assumptions that everyone who wears formal attire thinks you don't "fit in"?

If you don't like formal attire, or can't justify purchasing it is one thing. I won't "look down my nose" at you over that -- but I do take exception at being judged as a snob just because I do wear formal attire.

T.