Modern tartans- historical tartans

[figheadair]

Matt Newsome has written an article on this subject. It has a fairly extensive list of tartans that are reputed to have existed before Culloden (with some discussion of how solid the evidence is), although it is by no means a definitive list.

Again, as Peter said, even tartans that can be proven to have existed before Culloden, and are still woven today, have changed in hue, and likely in proportion as well, over the years.

Matt's article is worth a read as it was inspired by a similar question to that in the OP of this thread however I would urge caution about antiquity and/or setting of a lot of the 'claimed' pre-culloden tartans mentioned as the source for the date was often one or another C19th publication.

Thanks for the help gentlemen, I really appreciate it.
Was there any rhyme or reason to the tartan setts that existed in the 18th century? Or were they just spun with the setts just being a matter of personal taste? If this is the case- then couldn't I just use most setts, provided that I found one with period-correct and rank-appropriate colors? Again, thanks for the help.

There was some reason for the various settings of old tartans but I cannot possibly deal with that here. The majority of pre-Culloden tartans that survive are not in general use today and so are not readily available. Some of those that are include:

Culloden
MacColl
MacDonald of Kingsburgh
MacDonald of the Isles (Red)
MacDougall
Murray of Tullibardine

However, in every case what the trade weave has little similarity with the original.

[Brian K]

There was some reason for the various settings of old tartans but I cannot possibly deal with that here. The majority of pre-Culloden tartans that survive are not in general use today and so are not readily available. Some of those that are include:

Culloden
MacColl
MacDonald of Kingsburgh
MacDonald of the Isles (Red)
MacDougall
Murray of Tullibardine

However, in every case what the trade weave has little similarity with the original.

I find this interesting, Peter, as everything I have read has indicated that local weavers wove patterns they liked with yarns dyed with colors they had easily available and that's what people in the area wore because it was at hand. You, however, are the expert and know much better than this non-scholar about the subject. Do you have links to what you alluded to above? Perhaps some articles of your own? I would be very interested in reading them.

Regards,

Brian

[figheadair]

I find this interesting, Peter, as everything I have read has indicated that local weavers wove patterns they liked with yarns dyed with colors they had easily available and that's what people in the area wore because it was at hand. You, however, are the expert and know much better than this non-scholar about the subject. Do you have links to what you alluded to above? Perhaps some articles of your own? I would be very interested in reading them.

Regards,

Brian

Brian,

You are basically correct and the setts I mention may well have been just that. All my published articles are here - http://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/research.htm

There are so few old pieces and even fewer that can be grouped into a given area that very little research has has been done, as opposed to theorising, on regional styles and techniques. I'm currently working on several old pieces from the Appin/Lorn area that show a common structure and two of which look as though they are off the same loom and so probably from the same weaver which is very exciting and the only known example that I'm aware of.

[PalmerPirate]

Fascinating! I wasn't intending to find a clan tartan and wear it because it claimed to be from the eighteenth century. I was thinking more about finding one that could exist in the 18th century, regardless of whether or not it's similar to a modern tartan.
Were most tartans based off of setts that already existed at the time? Would some weaver just see a sett he liked and simply make something roughly similar, or were there only certain existing tartans inside specific "rules?" How much room was there for variation?
Sorry if I'm asking too many questions, or if my questions seem to overlap. Again, you have all been most helpful and I greatly appreciate the comments.

[figheadair]

Would some weaver just see a sett he liked and simply make something roughly similar

Were most tartans based off of setts that already existed at the time?

We have no idea how setts were developed pre-1750 but it's reasonable to assume that some patterns existed at any given time and that there would have been (new) variations based on colours available and/or preference.

were there only certain existing tartans inside specific "rules?"

There is no evidence that there were any 'rules' until the early C19th.

How much room was there for variation?

As there were no rules there was every oportunity for variation.

[PalmerPirate]

We have no idea how setts were developed pre-1750 but it's reasonable to assume that some patterns existed at any given time and that there would have been (new) variations based on colours available and/or preference.



There is no evidence that there were any 'rules' until the early C19th.



As there were no rules there was every oportunity for variation.

Thank you for such a prompt and precise response! I have but one question left to ask- I understand that red is a higher-rank tartan color, but would it be appropriate for somebody who was middle-rank? By that I mean somebody who was upper-middle-rank, if such a thing existed.

[figheadair]

Thank you for such a prompt and precise response! I have but one question left to ask- I understand that red is a higher-rank tartan color, but would it be appropriate for somebody who was middle-rank? By that I mean somebody who was upper-middle-rank, if such a thing existed.

Pre-c1760 a tartan with lots red in it was generally the preserve of the gentry simply because the dyestuff was more expensive. Those with less income might well have opted for a pattern with a red stripe rather than the whole plaid being predominately red.

[Nick the DSM]

Its said that the Morrison Red tartan was created circa or even before the year of Culloden.