Modern weathered tartans

[Jock Scot]

Haven't I seen the line that the weathered tartans are what the regular tartan would look like if it had been buried in a peat bog for some period of time?

...and I agree...that would be one slimy kilt...eeeeeyoooo!

So Rocky is distinguishing the difference between actual weathered kilts and the ones that are designed to look weathered?

Best

AA

So,I wonder, are we looking at" modern weathered" colours from the mills of today, that are an "interpretation" and an "approximation" of how colours might, could, maybe, perhaps, but not necessarily look like after 200 years of use? Or, are we looking at a cunning plan to offer another colour scheme to sell more tartan?I really don't mind that, it is business after all, but I do like to know these things before parting with hard earned cash.

[auld argonian]

I suppose that it would be a noble experiment for someone with a few spare swatches to mount them on a board and put them outside in the sun and snow and wind and rain for a year and see what happens...sort of like what the paint companies do to test the weather-worthiness of their products.

Now there would be a difference between samples from, say, New Mexico and Vermont...or from the US and the UK, I'd guess. Maybe the Pacific Northwest would be the best "average" location for a test of this sort.

Jock, I have been steadfastly trying to avoid the temptation to get another kilt, having two nice ones in variations of Robertson, but the temptation of getting the Robertson Hunting in the weathered from Lochcarron is mighty strong...it's pretty good lookin'. Since I think that wearing the weathered for "good" wold be sort of inappropriate, I'd be thinking about one of the five or six yard casual affairs rather than going the whole eight yards.

...yet pity stays my hand...it's a pity that I don't have the money...it would also be a pity if my dear wife were to kill me for getting another kilt.

Hence, the old joke:

"My wife told me that she'd leave me if I bought another kilt."

"Gee, that's too bad."

"Yeah...I'm gonna miss her..."

Anyway, I do think that it's not so much a cynical marketing ploy but rather the mills trying to expand their lines to sell more goods and thus stay in business. The nice thing is that if no one shows any interest, they just stop weaving it and go back to the basic line that they've always had a market for.

Best

AA

[Cygnus]

I suppose that it would be a noble experiment for someone with a few spare swatches to mount them on a board and put them outside in the sun and snow and wind and rain for a year and see what happens...sort of like what the paint companies do to test the weather-worthiness of their products.

That would be a good experiment, though it is my understanding that the weathered tartans are supposed to replicate the passage of time and the effect of the elements on older, vegetable-dyed tartan. I have a sneaking suspicion that modern tartan with its synthetic dyes would react differently in these adverse conditions.

What we really need are two bits of old tartan, cut from the same bolt, one of which was kept safe in a cedar chest for a hundred years and the other buried in the peat bog. Then we'd have a good idea of exactly how the colours would change.

[artificer]

That would be a good experiment, though it is my understanding that the weathered tartans are supposed to replicate the passage of time and the effect of the elements on older, vegetable-dyed tartan. I have a sneaking suspicion that modern tartan with its synthetic dyes would react differently in these adverse conditions.

***

I keep hoping Peter will weigh in on this, his breakdown of how the various red dyes fade (to cite just one example) is very informative.

ith:

[xman]

I suppose that it would be a noble experiment for someone with a few spare swatches to mount them on a board and put them outside in the sun and snow and wind and rain for a year and see what happens...

It has been done. If I remember correctly, Modern colours dyed with aniline dyes fade to Ancient tones when left in the sun for one year. The information is likely here somewhere. http://www.scottishtartans.co.uk/research.htm

So,I wonder, are we looking at" modern weathered" colours from the mills of today, that are an "interpretation" and an "approximation" of how colours might, could, maybe, perhaps, but not necessarily look like after 200 years of use? Or, are we looking at a cunning plan to offer another colour scheme to sell more tartan?I really don't mind that, it is business after all, but I do like to know these things before parting with hard earned cash.

I'll bet there's some of both. Scheming to sell more tartan cloth the weavers interpret new 'conditions'. it makes sense too. Ancient colours were only about 30 or 40 years old and becoming quite popular. Why not take the next step and 'stress' the colours even further?

[JSFMACLJR]

That would be a good experiment, though it is my understanding that the weathered tartans are supposed to replicate the passage of time and the effect of the elements on older, vegetable-dyed tartan. I have a sneaking suspicion that modern tartan with its synthetic dyes would react differently in these adverse conditions.

Take a look at this post by Matthew Newsome. The kilt shown is "modern" i.e. chemical dyes:
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...tml#post919838

[Joshua]

Personally - there are multiple reasons and I agree with all of them.

1. Give more options to a kiltwearer, especially those who are dedicated to only one named ancestral tartan. (i.e. there are 3 modern Urquhart tartans, all of which are *basically* a black watch variant with a stripe or two in red or red/white - having ancient/weathered gives new color options without going to a different tartan)

2. Gives a kilted option that has a less "Military" look, and looks well suited to earthtone / country / less formal clothing.

3. Sell more tartan.

[davidlpope]

...are we looking at a cunning plan to offer another colour scheme to sell more tartan?I really don't mind that, it is business after all, but I do like to know these things before parting with hard earned cash.

This is probably the case. Personally, I've disposed of these notions that the "weathered looks like a piece of tartan buried in a bog", "ancient looks like it was made with plant dyes", etc. To me, the commercially produced color schemes reflect nothing other than different palettes of colors. The only exception to this are the Wilsons of Bannockburn colors, which do seem to be a close match to the original Wilsons dye colors.

All that being said, I find that most tartans look better in a particular color scheme than others.
Take the Hunting MacMillan, for instance. In the modern colors, the blue and green are so dark as to blend into the black lines. The result is a tartan that, from a distance, looks uniformly dark with yellow overstripes. The same tartan in the ancient colors looks to me to be too "pastel" shaded. On the other hand, the Campbell clan tartan looks just right using the same palette- I think it has to do with the contrast of the black overstripes on the lighter green and blue without the presence of other colors.

I've recently had some Hunting MacMillan done up in a "modified weathered" color scheme. To my eye, it is more attractive than any of the available color scheme options for this particular tartan. If I were to have another kilt in this same tartan I'd have it custom woven in colors approximating House of Edgar's "Muted" color scheme, which I also think looks nice with many green/blue/black tartans.

For red tartans, I find that red/green tartans look nice in the ancient colors, but I don't fancy the ancient colors for red/green/blue tartans, prefering the modern colors.

So, perhaps it's best to forego the bogus origins of the color schemes and just say what most of us are really thinking- "I like the look of the tartan in these colors better!"

Cordially,

David

[chrisupyonder]

Did anyone see this. It shows how quickly a modern tartan mill can set up the weaving machines to make any tartan. I do not normally watch Gok's programs but the tartan weaving caught my attention. It was the Lochcarron mill.Gok's Clothes Roadshow (Fashion)
Channel 4
Tuesday 15th February 2011, 20:00 to 21:00
episode 4
"Brix heads to the Highlands of Scotland to see how the iconic - and currently very fashionable kilt - is made."
I cannot find anywhere to watch online though.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/g...es-1/episode-4
For any given colour they have hundreds of shades of wool yarn.
The point is that as long as they can get a sample of actual cloth then they can reproduce it but if all they have is a photo then the actual shades can vary. They can also do short runs I believe.
The second point is that I don't think it is the mills wanting to produce more tartans, it is the sellers that decide what they can sell and weathered tartans are open to interpretation whereas the modern tartans are pretty much standard no matter which mill is doing the weaving.

[svc40bt]

I've recently had some Hunting MacMillan done up in a "modified weathered" color scheme. To my eye, it is more attractive than any of the available color scheme options for this particular tartan.

Pictures?