The Craftsman versus the Industrial Complex

[DWFII]

The masses can not afford 'elite pieces of art' (whether it be clothing, shoes, paintings, etc). We live within our means or we live without. To only purchase 'pieces of art' on an average person's salary would be irresponsible.

I'm not talking about elite pieces of art...nor, in a broader sense, was Kipling...

And there was a time when if you didn't have a pair of handmade shoes, you didn't have shoes. And somehow people got by. The "art" they hung on their wall was of their own making. The music of their own making. Kind of like the Internet, those connections connections fostered other connections. And so they saved to have a kilt. They saved to have shoes.

And as an aside they took care of (maintained) those things. [shock]

There was a time and place in the US when if you worked more than two hours a day it was because you didn't have land and/or slaves to work it. It is significant that at the turn of the 19th century workers all across the board were incensed by what was known at the time as "wage slavery." Even then, when society might have taken a different path, they felt the breaking of connections ...felt their lives slipping out of their control.

Today much of what supports our "prosperity" is based on the exploitation of other people. Much of our prosperity...maybe near-as-nevermind all of it...is based on passing the real cost onto our children and our grandchildren.

Today the masses live on someone else's blood sweat and tears ...one way or the other.

Craftsmen...of any stripe...seldom get paid what they're worth. And yet in a sense which is seldom addressed or equaled, what they produce has a real value that does not pass the cost on to others.

Anthony Delos probably comes close to getting a reasonable wage ($5000.00 per pair). But that only means compensation for hours worked equivalent to what most people in this country get working at middle class jobs.

No disrespect intended and with the acknowledgement that I am speculating (based on other people, many other people I've known) but I suspect that for most of my 40 years in the business I have worked longer hours and for lower wage than perhaps anyone in this discussion with the possible exception of Rocky. (Being the "master"of your own workshop" is not the easiest row to hoe.)

Yet I own my own home, two Scottish wool kilts, one handmade for me, and have no outstanding debt. I don't intend to crow about that...I've gotten lucky and I truly have been blessed...but I'm no genius. In another age...maybe even today...I am the very definition of the "masses". If I can do it others surely can.

[KD Burke]

There was a time and place in the US when if you worked more than two hours a day it was because you didn't have land and/or slaves to work it.

What an extraordinary statement!

I find I can make no response that will not violate the spirit, if not the letter of the forum rules.

I will therefore retire from this discussion.

[DWFII]

What an extraordinary statement!

I find I can make no response that will not violate the spirit, if not the letter of the forum rules.

I will therefore retire from this discussion.

I don't understand this. I stated nothing but the facts. I did not offer an opinion as to whether that state of affairs was good or bad.

It's history.

I could elaborate...but if you read the whole post and not just bits and pieces of it, it's clearly part of a larger observation about the real cost of our prosperity.

[Phil]

Sadly craftsmen, by and large, are a thing of the past. Industrial processes have "de-skilled" many such processes but the upside of that is that we can nowadays possess so many such items that were once the preserve of the rich. Henry Ford brought cars (automobiles) to the masses, televisions and refrigerators and most other domestic appliances nowadays cost a fraction of what they did 40 years ago in both real and comparative terms. Shoes, which are a cherished subject of DWF11, once belonged mainly to moneyed people and I still remember children to whom shoes were strangers, wellington boots being their sole footwear (pardon the pun). Clothes were hand-made by tailors (an endangered species nowadays), cost a great deal of money and were expected to last a lifetime (with repairs if necessary). Who nowadays sees a jacket with leather elbow patches? Who darns socks or pullovers any more? So while we may look back at such craftsmanship with a degree of nostalgia it is much the same as remembering the "good old days" with a sigh of nostalgia, forgetting that with such rose-tinted spectacles not all was quite as we would like to remember.

[DWFII]

Sadly craftsmen, by and large, are a thing of the past. Industrial processes have "de-skilled" many such processes but the upside of that is that we can nowadays possess so many such items that were once the preserve of the rich. Henry Ford brought cars (automobiles) to the masses, televisions and refrigerators and most other domestic appliances nowadays cost a fraction of what they did 40 years ago in both real and comparative terms. Shoes, which are a cherished subject of DWF11, once belonged mainly to moneyed people and I still remember children to whom shoes were strangers, wellington boots being their sole footwear (pardon the pun). Clothes were hand-made by tailors (an endangered species nowadays), cost a great deal of money and were expected to last a lifetime (with repairs if necessary). Who nowadays sees a jacket with leather elbow patches? Who darns socks or pullovers any more? So while we may look back at such craftsmanship with a degree of nostalgia it is much the same as remembering the "good old days" with a sigh of nostalgia, forgetting that with such rose-tinted spectacles not all was quite as we would like to remember.

Speak to me...us...about what the "good new days" offer. Where are we going? What are the consequences?

It's easy to say they are a "thing of the past"...to dismiss connections and craftsmanship and caring about people the pursuit of excellence and taking responsibility for one's actions as untenable in modern society. But what are the alternatives?

How's that "brave new world thing" working out?

[RockyR]

How's that "brave new world thing" working out?

How are the 'old ways' working out?

You keep referring to the "brave new world". Remember that EVERYTHING was invented / discovered at some point... even fire. Your 'old ways' were once new ways.

Technology and progress are facts. They may not be facts that you like, but they are facts.

I would suggest that we need to redefine craftsman in a modern age. There are those who are better at making things with sewing machines (read as 'technology') than those who sew by hand. I've seen machine sewn kilts that rival the best hand sewn kilts. I've also seen very POOR examples of handsewn kilts sewn by 'professionals'.

Perhaps "tecraftsman"? People who are the best in their field with the aid of technology.

[KiltedKnome]

I would suggest that we need to redefine craftsman in a modern age. There are those who are better at making things with sewing machines (read as 'technology') than those who sew by hand. Perhaps "tecraftsman"? People who are the best in their field with the aid of technology.

I would argue that "craftsmanship" does not exclude the use of technology and therefore a new term "tecraftsman" is not necessary. The craftsman uses the tools right for the job, be it a human-powered one or an electronic-one controlled by the human. So a sewing machine under the control of a craftsman is simply another tool.

[DWFII]

How are the 'old ways' working out?

Hard to say...they seem to be dismissed and supplanted by an absolute fixation with "all things bright and beautiful."

You keep referring to the "brave new world". Remember that EVERYTHING was invented / discovered at some point... even fire. Your 'old ways' were once new ways.

True and I'm not against new things or even progress...I use a computer, drive a car, etc., etc.. But we don't think through the cost...the real cost...of progress and technology. For example, have you given any thought to the fact that Poly-viscose is petro-chemical based? (I don't know if you are using PV.. For the purposes of this discussion, I really don't want to know...I'm just offering an example)
Is the price of environmental degradation? health defects, etc., factored into the price of a PV kilt?

And that doesn't say anything about the alienation, from each other from our material environment, that is created by slogging through a day in an oppressive environment doing work that you have no vested interest in.

Und so weiter.

I would suggest that we need to redefine craftsman in a modern age. There are those who are better at making things with sewing machines (read as 'technology') than those who sew by hand. I've seen machine sewn kilts that rival the best hand sewn kilts. I've also seen very POOR examples of handsewn kilts sewn by 'professionals'.

My idea of Craftsmen and Craftsmanship never excluded a judicious use of machines. Machines are just elaborate tools. I use sewing machines in my business.

I am sure at least one of my kilts is machine sewn.

[RockyR]

Phil brings up a good point about 'rose tinted glasses' and only remembering the 'good old days'. When I look back at old girlfriends, I can fondly remember them. Then I think harder and say to myself 'there must have been a reason we broke up'. Then it hits me... all the argueing, cheating, weird familys, personal oddities, etc.

SNIP...

But what are the alternatives?

Shoeless working class. Dirty masses. 1 or MAYBE 2 shirts and pairs of pants (or kilts) for each person. Working in the facroty 10 - 12 hours a day with no windows and no fire escapes. Paid in company script to buy things at the company store.

Ahhh... memories.

(Hmm... maybe Mac and Natalie want to be paid in "USA Kilts Bucks" and earn credits toward a kilt and Ramen Noodles).

I would argue that "craftsmanship" does not exclude the use of technology and therefore a new term "tecraftsman" is not necessary. The craftsman uses the tools right for the job, be it a human-powered one or an electronic-one controlled by the human. So a sewing machine under the control of a craftsman is simply another tool.

Good point. Craftsmen/women have always used 'the right tool for the right job'. If a sewing machine or industrial serger or blind hem machine are the right tools, then that's what should be used.

[DWFII]

Shoeless working class. Dirty masses. 1 or MAYBE 2 shirts and pairs of pants (or kilts) for each person. Working in the facroty 10 - 12 hours a day with no windows and no fire escapes. Paid in company script to buy things at the company store.

No, the alternatives are what we see the beginnings of right now....and no one here in this discussion seems to be willing to address or confront--the alternatives are global warming. And great huge floating rafts, bigger than some states, in the Pacific ocean comprised of plastic bags, discarded clothing, shoes, syringes, beer can rings--all the detritus of a throw-away, consumer culture. The real alternatives are loss of habitat and biomes.

Of being alone in a world we have sterilized in pursuit of "efficiency" and comfort.

Extrapolate into the future ten years, twenty...none of us are responsible because we are just making semi-quality, graded-quality widgets 8 hours a day in a job we hate.

And it is those people right there who are the faceless masses that you talk about--they live in urban squalor and always will. In quiet desperation because nothing they encounter in their work days, in their leisure time has any real meaning for them. They can't afford the luxury of a Rocky Mountain getaway or a Caribbean summer home.

And as each passing fad comes and goes...kilts too, perhaps?...they move onto the next looking for who knows what and never look back. There are no "good old days" for this and the next and the next generation. Not even in their proximate memories.The problem is there are no good new days ether.

It also might be pointed out that having plastic shoes is not significantly different from having currans strapped to your feet. Neither are the best option. But of course your grandchildren and your great-grandchildren won't have to pay for the currans.

I am not looking to take us back to 1880. Read that statement again...I am not wanting to go back. But there were a lot of good things in the way people approached life and work. And a lot of lessons to be learned.

If progress has given us anything of value....it has given us the luxury, if we will but reach out and take it, to re-evaluate the present and shape the future so that it is not just an extrapolation of the current dismal state of affairs that is so horrible no one (here) wants to deal with it.

There 's a lot of the 19th century, and even the 18th century, that could be embraced in the 21st century and it would be a good thing--a revitalizing thing.