Quote Originally Posted by beloitpiper View Post
The Irish certainly had a different system, but I certainly would not call them "clans". The Irish system did not have primogeniture like the Scottish or Anglo-Norman system did. Primogeniture is the passing of land and title from father to son. This did not exist in Ireland. Instead, nobles in the kingdom would elect their next king, which meant that while families stayed in power, the power could transfer from uncle to nephew or cousin to cousin.
Actually, the system of land inheritance was pretty much the same in both countries until the late 12th and early 13th centuries. The last of the Irish High Kings did succeeded by primogeniture. This switch to bastard feudalism was brought about by several things: (1) a basic shift in the economy from barter to one based on money; (2) the ultimate failure of the traditional system of apportioning lands to heirs; (3) the rise of the power and influence of the Roman church over the indigenous Celtic church in Irish and Scots society. If you look at the feudal structure of 13th century society you will see it parallels the hierarchy of the Roman church. In short, the church led the way in imposing feudalism throughout Europe at this time. That it took hold in Ireland/Scotland was due to a shift in religious practice, economic changes in society, and the need to address the practical matter of land ownership.

Quote Originally Posted by beloitpiper;482457[/QUOTE
[Begin Irish archaeology reference]
This is why the Irish built wooden defenses. When the Normans (and later the Anglo-Normans) invaded, they built large stone castles while the Irish built wooden structures and crannogs. They knew there was no guarantee that the large, expensive stone castles would be passed to their son like the Normans did. Instead, they spent their money on poets, lawyers, historians, and armies.
[End Irish archaeology reference]
A minor historical note: The Normans never invaded Ireland. MacMurrough-Kavanagh, King of Leinster, hired Norman knights to assist him in his war against Rory O'Conor, King of Connaught and High King of Ireland. MacMurrough paid Strongbow and his accompanying knights quite handsomely (he even gave his daughter to Strongbow in marriage), and incorporated them into his army. Not exactly an invasion.

As far as building in stone: Ireland was heavily forested, so there was little need to build in stone, what with massive oak trees in abundant supply, and a definite lack of experienced masons in the land. However, the higher castes (Irish society was divided by Brehon Law into numerous castes with little or no social mobility) did build in stone.

In Ireland the clan system did survive well into the Hibernio-Norman period and beyond. Perhaps the last great clan battle in Ireland was the battle of "Bloody Banks" (also known as the battle of Ravens Well) in the 17th century when the O'Tooles and the O'Byrnes fought it out on the northern edge of the town of Bray. According to some contemporary accounts more than a thousand men were killed in three days of fighting.

That the feudal-clan system ended in Ireland before it was extinguished in Scotland is a fact. The reason that it ended is due to the indigenous Irish aristocracy leaving their clans fully a century before the flight of the Scottish aristocracy following the Jacobite wars of the 18th century.

Today one sees in modern Ireland a resurgence of interest in "the clans of old" similar to that experienced in 19th century Scotland. Undoubtedly, as the Irish themselves become more "European" and less "Irish" this interest in Irish clans will continue to grow until it reaches a level similar to the social importance of the clans in Scotland.