Black Tie means a bow tie not a black coloured tie

[Paul Henry]

Todd ,yet again , I think you read too much in a post:- nowhere does it say in bikelounger's post that rural folk resent all manner of proper attire... he simply said clothes should be appropriate for work!

You comment "I'm afraid this post is just as judgemental of those of us who take pride in our formal attire as the people who judge those who do not wear it." really doesn't follow, as he is not judging anyone else , merely saying that black tie isn't for him!

Please don't think I'm against your having your own opinions, but it's an observation that you feel that "proper attire"(your words) is being attacked ,and clearly in this post it wasn't, that poster obviously isn't one for the full black number, but he didn't say that other kilt wearer couldn't or shouldn't.

[Spc. Scott]

First off I can say that I don't own a full formal kit or even a semi-formal one. My opinion on this is to dress to the occasion. If you cannot do that then by all means wear the best that you do have. Stand tall and be proud of yourself and that will shine through more than what you may or may not be wearing.

[Panache]

And you misread my intent. The apparent judgemental voice was to make a point--that too many who wear formal attire who look down their noses at those of us who cannot justify the expenses involved in wearing the stuff. In general, I simply find that because I don't "fit in" for such formal occasions, I just don't go.

I think the point of the original post was that if one wishes to attend a formal event then it behooves that person to dress appropriately.

If they don't know how to the onus is on them to do their homework and find out.

I have a full formal kilted rig,

I have cause to wear it a couple of times per year.

I don't look down at someone who doesn't own a formal outfit.

However if I am at a black tie affair and see someone not appropriately dressed I wonder

Do they not know what "black tie" means?

Do they feel that they aren't bound by social conventions?

Did they not care enough to wear an appropriate outfit?

If you go to a formal event once every decade and hire an outfit to do so that is perfectly fine.

If you choose not to attend a formal event because you don't have or don't want to dress formally that is perfectly fine.

If you go to an event that specifies a type of dress and don't wear that type of attire that is not very respectful to the hosts.

Just my two cents

Cheers

Jamie

[Panache]

Just to be clear

I should also note that some events are "Black tie" optional.

If so it would be poor manners for those in formal attire to in anyway shape or form to look down on or think less of those in semi formal attire.

Cheers

Jamie

[thescot]

Well, I wonder how Courtmount really feels about all this.

Actually, I agree--for the most part. It is my understanding that a long, black four-in-hand is perfectly acceptable for black tie affairs . . . but I've never actually anyone wearing such. Nor would I do so.

The point of black tie is to be plain, non-showy, tasteful. Adding bling, red cumberbunds, etc. certainly detract from the plainness of the ensemble. Unless one is kilted. Then all bets are off. The Scottish traditions dictate in that case--silver mounts and fur sporrans are not really considered bling!

But, like my firend Courtmount, I much prefer the traditional.

Watching the knuckleheads at the Oscars is sufficient cause to question the future of our civilization. Why anyone would care what one of those overpaid nitwits does or thinks is well beyond me.

[Spc. Scott]

Just to be clear

I should also note that some events are "Black tie" optional.

If so it would be poor manners for those in formal attire to in anyway shape or form to look down on or think less of those in semi formal attire.

Cheers

Jamie

Jamie nails it here. In my opinion it is far worse for someone to look down on another than it is to be wearing your best and still be under-dressed.

[starbkjrus]

Dee, I hope you are not referring to those of us who consider ourselves traditionalists.

T.

Todd, I was referring to the original post. I consider myself a traditionalist as well -- you would never catch me wearing a long tie with three button formal vest - BUT I don't rant about what others wear either.

I really get tired sometimes of threads around here where folks have to nitpick. As I believe Jock Scott said not too long ago (paraphrase) "I cannot believe how much people here obsess over what to wear." Ditto.

[Spc. Scott]

Watching the knuckleheads at the Oscars is sufficient cause to question the future of our civilization. Why anyone would care what one of those overpaid nitwits does or thinks is well beyond me.

It is too bad that it seems a good portion of the general public does care and will emulate what they see.

[bikeolounger]

Todd ,yet again , I think you read too much in a post:- nowhere does it say in bikelounger's post that rural folk resent all manner of proper attire... he simply said clothes should be appropriate for work!

You comment "I'm afraid this post is just as judgemental of those of us who take pride in our formal attire as the people who judge those who do not wear it." really doesn't follow, as he is not judging anyone else, merely saying that black tie isn't for him!

Please don't think I'm against your having your own opinions, but it's an observation that you feel that "proper attire"(your words) is being attacked, and clearly in this post it wasn't, that poster obviously isn't one for the full black number, but he didn't say that other kilt wearer couldn't or shouldn't.

Thank you, PaulHenry, you got my point.

There is a vast difference between "too many" and "all." Some folks choose to not understand that distinction.

[davedove]

Everyone must be careful, because "snobbery" can go both ways. It is just as bad for someone to look down on those who are "unrefined" as it is for the other side to look down on those who are "dandies".

Some people can't be bothered to get dressed up and attend formal events, or just don't have the occasion to do so. I say that's fine, but I also think they're missing out on an experience.

I was raised in rural southern Illinois. My relatives were for the most part farm folk. My dad over the years raised horses, cattle, and even pigs, yet he owned a suit for nicer events. Granted, I don't think he ever wore a tuxedo, but he would have if the occasion warranted.

I have the occasion to get dressed up formally once or twice a year, usually on cruises, but sometimes other events. I wouldn't want to dress that way all the time, and generally don't even care to wear a tie, but I enjoy doing it at those times because it's something special.

Dressing appropriately is not about being superior, it's about respecting the host of the event.